The thought that the man responsible for this has been honored and lionized in my own country fills me with a kind of dread-soaked rage that feels curiously like nausea.
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It hurts as much as exfoliating your testicles. As a matter of fact, can’t we force Chavez to exfoliate his for each copy of the sword of Bolivar he hands out to these thugs?
Is not a big deal…. France has received him with honors and people from the right also has served him pompous dinners….. is just a question of power rules and the nausea worldwide virus. I hope this revolt hurts his image and triggers a sort of censure against him. But who knows…
Paulpa, I think you are right. In any case, the same way they redefine terrorism or other concepts and practices, we’ll be able to redefine these honors as spurious in the future.
it’s even worse when you hear it…he is El Libertador (Simon Bolivar’s doppelganger) of the libyan people? CH ha trapeado our Liberator’s name with this garbage?
the same who now used antiaircraft machine guns against demonstrators?
the great socialist?
Yes and here in London, the man responsible for this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwnUQcKXmMM&feature=player_embedded&skipcontrinter=1 is being invited to this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1358789/Its-VERY-Royal-Wedding-40-crowned-heads-attend-William-Kates-big-day.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Mugabe also got one. Lets be clear, receiving a Condecoration from this Government only means you are in the Hague´s shortlist…
Qaddafi, Mugabe, Lukashenko…Chavez seems to consistently decorate and/or visit the world’s most mediocre, authoritarian leftovers in part I think because he identifies with them. They are leftovers from the Cold War and, himself being a Marxist relic with no place in the modern world, Chavez feels he has to somehow form a loose alliance between himself and other people who have managed to hold on to power for years through thuggy means. Sadly, I don’t think anyone will rub in his face the fact that he decorated a man who, if he wasn’t a mass murderer at the time he received the order of Bolivar, is now after he massacred more than 200 people in Benghazi. I doubt the people that vote for him even know where that is.
“I resemble that remark.” Evita Golinger
Yes, the governments of France and others, even the UK and Italy have wined and dined The Man (Qaddafi; you can put up any tyrant’s name here) . And yes, they have literally provided him with military weapons from their
tightly controlled, government maintainedindustrial military establishments to do exactly what he is doing now. Are we not fortunate that such principled and responsible gentlemen and ladies control all weapons and sales?Of course, there being a free press and an opposition, the hypocrisy will not go unnoticed in those countries, even as such principled defenders of democracy only made some business with The Man, they did not exactly hand him the keys to the city. Governments and politicians are by nature unprincipled; however in some countries they are supposed to adhere, at least domestically to some principles codified in Constitutions. That makes it ugly, to coddle a dictator too closely.
What surprise is there that Hugo Chavez does even worse? It’s only fitting given that he intends more than just do business with The Man. To him, The Man is more than that, he is an example. He intends to imitate him fully. Having no principles in that regard of shooting at protesters (Too many examples to number here), no checks and no balances on his administration, no Constitution that he is bound to respect (he feels like he made it and unmade it as well) and already said intention of enjoying power fully until old age stops him, you can expect him to actually team with guys like that.
Well, there are breaking news about Gaddafi fleeing to… Venezuela!!!
I think these are great news, our friend may face a couple of problems, the Hague maybe? At least it should stands clear, who protects this dictator (read as you want ;) )
If the reports are to be believed he’ll be assembling his hut along with his army of misses pretty soon on venezuelan soil (Hato Piñero?). Fun times indeed.
It’s only too bad it wasn’t Chavez fleeing to Libya
From AVN:
Libia
La República Árabe Libia Popular y Socialista también está siendo objeto de ataques por parte del gobierno estadounidense, de Israel y otros países coaligados en la derecha internacional.
Se trata de un proceso dirigido a desprestigiar al líder Muammar Gadaffi y opacar los logros de esa revolución, que puede exhibir orgullosa la esperanza de vida más alta de África (74 años), el PIB nominal más alto de ese continente, el primer puesto en el índice de Desarrollo Humano del continente y el poder adquisitivo más alto de África, entre otros logros.
http://abn.info.ve/node/44149
Precioso…
Se les olvido poner el asterisco:
“que puede exhibir orgullosa la esperanza de vida más alta de África*”
*ciertas condiciones aplican
“La República Árabe Libia Popular y Socialista” or the “Great Socialist People’s Libyan Arab Jamahiriya”.
The “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea”
The “República Bolivariana de Venezuela”
Do they realize they have given birth to a trope? See
People’s Republic of Tyranny
“el poder adquisitivo más alto”
Such a good, socialist achievement. But do I detect a note of jealousy, rather than simple praise?
Ese Gaddafi (o Qaddafi o como quiera que se escriba) anda mas enredado que perro con tres bolas.
Usando su fuerza aerea para matar a su propia gente, que caradura!
Otro mas pa’ La Haya!!!!
La crisis en Libia sigue generando reseñas periodísticas sencillamente espantosas.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/world/africa/22libya.html?_r=1&ref=global-home
Es difícil leerlo. Que bolas.
Not to be cold about te situation in Lybia, but every killed Lybian equals a few cents more on oil prices. Chavez is surely cheering Ghadaffi on to keep on killing as long as possible.
Then, when Lybia calms down, he sures hopes for Bahrein, Iran, Saudi Arabia et all to go down the revolution path so oil prices could climb as high as possible, accumulating as much cash as possible for 2012.
While it is true that Chavez should be much more careful about who he glorifies…
I find it very interesting that no one here, especially Quico, ever seems to have a problem with the opposition’s (yes, the people you support) close alignment with the United States government, which is responsible for more death and destruction than a million Ghadaffi’s and Lukashenko’s combined.
It is super interesting… Almost as if you all were wearing blinders.
A million times?
Citation needed.
And some people here are extremely critical of the foreign and domestic policy of the US, however, we are not talking about the US here, neither everything in the world is about the US.
Oh boy Guido, please tell me you’re not so naive…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan#Statistics
Oh, and just yesterday:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/us-bomb-attack-kills-65-civilians-20110221-1b2gj.html
I can keep going if you like, but I think you get the point. It is easy to say “we are not talking about the US here.” I could just as easily say “we are not talking about Qaddafi” when you criticize Chavez for praising him. That argument is crap.
Oh boy Guido, please tell me you’re not so naive…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan#Statistics
Oh, and just yesterday:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/us-bomb-attack-kills-65-civilians-20110221-1b2gj.html
I can keep going if you like, but I think you get the point. It is easy to say “we are not talking about the US here.” I could just as easily say “we are not talking about Qaddafi” when you criticize Chavez for praising him. That argument is crap.
How about NOT AT ALL glorifying parties that should be carefully scrutinized and criticized, rather?
How about letting glory fall on scientists, artists, engineers, philanthropists and businessmen who produce something useful for their fellow humans by their own efforts?
Rather than people whose claim to doing ANY GOOD AT ALL and whose abilities stem from their power to use force, at times lethal, upon their fellow humans, and their all too great readiness to use it. Like those at the helm of government?
Or you would be too uncomfortable with this? It would make Socialism as practiced by present day Socialists, for example, impossible to glorify…
That’s an absurd comparison. For all of its sins, the U.S. does not massacre its own people for protesting. And, whatever you think of the U.S., it’s no way conceivable justification for Chavez’s support for Khadaffi.
Chavez selects his friends not for their virtues but for their anti-Americanism. Looks like that self-interested attitude is coming back to haunt him.
Mike,
I am not justifying Chavez’s support for Qaddafi. I think it is stupid.
Now, why are you so incapable of saying the same about the Venezuelan opposition’s alignment with the US government, which in terms of death and destruction is 100 times worse than Qaddafi.
Bullshit.
The opposition is composed by many different groups. Now go to El Libertario and tell me there is no crtic to the US govt.
Unlike Chávez and his party, we do not have a single point of view or a maximum leader.
Funny Guido, because your own friends and allies here have proven you wrong. Not a single one of them has been capable of voicing even the most remote criticism of the US government and the opposition’s alignment with them.
Go ahead. Read through the comments here. It is really quite amazing.
They are not all the opposition. And I opposed the Iraq war since day 1, hell, since day -50.
As I said, we have opinion differences and there is no groupthinking.
A couple things Guido.
1. If you think there are not differences of opinion within the pro-Chavez camp then you are so disconnected from the political process underway in your country that you should be embarrassed. The differences of opinion between, say, Luis Tascon or Gonzalo Gomez, and those of Diosdado Cabello, for example, are extremely vast and very apparent.
2. I am glad to hear that you opposed the Iraq War at least. That’s more than anyone else could muster up here. Quico hid behind this lame “they aren’t war crimes” argument.
However, you still have to address the fact that the majority of your opposition LEADERS remain closely aligned with the US government and their foreign policy goals. That’s a fact that no one here wants to deal with.
Yes, Alexander, it is better to align oneself with folks like Ortega, who called Qaddafi to express his “solidarity” with him, rather than ask him why he ordered his Air Force to strafe and bomb protesters. Count is 250 and going up…….
I’m not trying to minimize Qaddafi’s crimes or anything, but 250?? Dude, the US kills 250 Iraqis and Afghanis on a typical day and doesn’t blink an eye.
This is exactly why it is sooooo interesting that you guys ARE INCAPABLE of criticizing the Venezuelan opposition for its alignment with the US government.
You may not be able to quite grasp the difference between a war and a war crime, but the judges in The Hague sure can. Here’s a hint: Deliberate targetting of civilians.
I’m fully aware in Chomsky-La-La-Land that’s what y’all think the gringos do in Afghanistan. In reality-based world, people who deliberately train military weapons on a civilian population are war criminals, and those who don’t, aren’t.
Oh, okay Quico. So you have no problem with the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghanis because…..wait for it….. they weren’t “deliberately targetted!!!” (I guess dropping bombs on Baghdad wasn’t meant to kill any civilians)
Wow, that’s probably the most asenine thing I’ve ever heard. But no surprise I guess. As expected, you are utterly incapable of criticism here.
Right, so your retort to my “you don’t understand the difference between a war and a war crime” is “I don’t understand the difference between a war and a war crime”.
My work is done here.
And your retort to my “you are incapable of criticizing the oppositions (and your) alignment with the US” is:
“I am incapable of criticizing even the most egregious crimes of the United States because I am a total lackey of the empire.”
My work here is done.
By the way, just to follow your absolutely ridiculous line of reasoning, here’s the definition of war crimes. You tell me if the US is guilty of any of the following:
“War crimes are serious violations of the laws applicable in armed conflict giving rise to individual criminal responsibility. Examples of such conduct includes “murder, the ill-treatment or deportation of civilian residents of an occupied territory to slave labor camps”, “the murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war”, the killing of hostages, “the wanton destruction of cities, towns and villages, and any devastation not justified by military, or civilian necessity”
Can you say “Shock and Awe”?? Oh, but wait, I’m suure that was necessary right?
In treating Shock and Awe as a self-evident case of war crimes you just underline once again that you don’t actually understand the rudiments of International Humanitarian Law. In targetting regime installations – even many of them, even with big bombs, even all at once – you are doing the opposite of indiscriminately and deliberately targetting civilians.
The U.S. had the military capability to target civilian populations as long ago as the 40s. Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, even My Lai…here you could build a case. But in treating Shock and Awe as equivalent to carpet-bombing, well, you just show you’re unserious on this topic.
Listen, you can take a perfectly defensible Pacifist Stance that treats all acts of war as criminal acts. That appears to be your position, but you should at least have the presence of mind to realize that is not the international standard by which War Crimes are understood in international humanitarian law.
Lybia deliberately targets civilians with war weaponry. In my lifetime, the U.S. has never done that.
Quico,
I don’t care whether or not you think they are war crimes. I just find it absolutely fascinating that you are utterly incapable of criticizing the US here, or your beloved opposition’s alignment with them.
Someone starts to talk about the hundreds of thousands of people the US has killed in the last decade and you hide behind this ridiculous argument that they can’t be considered “war crimes”??
You’ve got some mega issues buddy… And you’re aligned with a much greater force for evil in the world than Chavez could ever dream of…
Yeah, you hear about people strafing crowds of peaceful civilians with heavy-caliber weapons YESTERDAY, yawn through it, cast your mind back to stuff that happened years ago, and I’m the one with major issues…
Revísate, chamín…
OH, and what part of:
““murder, the ill-treatment or deportation of civilian residents of an occupied territory to slave labor camps”, “the murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war”, the killing of hostages, ”
do you not understand? Are you really going to argue that the US is not guilty of any of the above???
In other words, even your pathetic “they aren’t war crimes” argument doesn’t hold any water.
Thanks for the laughs Quico. My work here is done.
I didn’t yawn through it. I criticized it, and I criticize Chavez’s praise of that idiot.
The interesting part is that you are incapable of doing the same. Talk about ideological insecurity!!!
Oh, and in other news yesterday:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/us-bomb-attack-kills-65-civilians-20110221-1b2gj.html
Are you yawning through it??
What he said. War is war and innocent people get killed. However, the main difference lies in whether those people accidentally got killed or whether the gunsights were trained on them in the first place. Wait until 2012 or beyond, Chavez will probably be the one sending in Aviacion to strafe crowds and people like Alexander will be using the old “b-b-but the U.S….”
Yeah, so if Chavez launches a war against, say, Colombia, and kills hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, then you’d have no problem with that because “war is war and innocent people get killed.” Gotcha!
It is absolutely amazing the lengths you guys will go to just to avoid criticizing the US.
Ok, Alexander, fine. The US is a bad, bad country.
Opposition? Please distance yourself from the US, effective now.
There!
Happy now?
Here’s a link about Whoretega’s call of stupid “solidarity”. Unbelievable.
Alexander (or is that Chris?),
By your reasoning then Chavez is aiding and abetting war crimes by selling oil to the US and Chavez should do the right thing and stop selling oil to them.
BTW, the topic here is Lybia, not the US, so I’d say you’re guilty of ‘thread-jacking’ and should be ignored.
Cutting off oil to the US would be suicide, but Chavez has certainly made sure they are paying a good price for Venezuelan oil, and has made efforts to increase sales to other countries such as China.
And thanks Mike, for demonstrating that you are incapable of the same thing Quico is.
Any other doubts I can clear up for ya?
Yes, are we still going to sell the Chinese oil at $5 a barrel, and take payment in non convertible currency?
Ooops – it would help to actually put the link up:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/22/AR2011022203086.html
Certainly many wars are unjustifiable, and even many justifiable wars include acts which harm civilians and can be considered war crimes. But deliberately targeting your own citizens for expressing political views combines just about every kind of atrocity.
I’m sure Chavez thought through all of this before spending all those billions on weapons.
I think it’s important to make clear why Mubarak was an evil tyrant deserving to be thrown out and torn into small bits, and Gaddafi is a brilliant revolutionary hero who deserves the world’s solidarity and support.
Mubarak: A military man who ruled dictatorially for 30 years, violating all sorts of human rights and amassing a huge, corrupt personal fortune. In the face of huge protests and international pressure, stopped short of machine gunning his own people and stepped down.
Gaddafi, in contrast: Took power in a military coup and has ruled dictatorially for more than 50 years, violating all sorts of human rights and amassing a corrupt personal fortune. In the face of huge protests, Gaddafi mass murdered his own people.
The difference should be evident. Oh, yeah, Mubarak’s Egypt was friendly to the U.S., whereas Gaddafi ruled an oil-rich nation with pretentions of leftism friendly to Venezuela.
http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad/noticia/212045/periodista-de-telesur-asegura-desde-libia-que-el-pais-esta-en-total-normalidad/
Must be a nice to live in a “normal” country!!
http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad/noticia/212060/tension-en-libia-se-producen-nuevos-tiroteos-en-las-calles-de-tripoli-fotos/